CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc. vs Wells Fargo & Company: Strategic Comparison

This in-depth comparison examines CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc. and Wells Fargo & Company across revenue, market value, business model, competitive positioning, and long-term growth strategy. Whether you are researching CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc. on its own, evaluating Wells Fargo & Company, or weighing the two companies side by side, the breakdown below highlights where each company leads and where the gap between CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc. and Wells Fargo & Company is widest.

On the headline numbers, CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc. reports annual revenue of $3.9B against $83.7B for Wells Fargo & Company, while their respective market capitalizations stand at $65.0B and $220.0B. CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc. is headquartered in United States and Wells Fargo & Company operates from USA, and those different home markets shape how each company competes.

CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc.: On July 19, 2024, a faulty CrowdStrike software update crashed 8.5 million Windows computers simultaneously — grounding flights, shutting down hospital systems, disabling bank ATMs, and generating an estimated $10 billion in global economic damage. The update took seconds to deploy and hours to remediate manually. CrowdStrike's stock fell 30 percent in the following days. Twelve months later, annual recurring revenue had grown to approximately $3.9 billion. The company's customers stayed. Founded in 2011 by George Kurtz, Gregg Marston, Dmitri Alperovitch, and Bimal Patel, CrowdStrike built a cloud-native endpoint security platform that processes over 2 trillion security events weekly through its proprietary Threat Graph. That data throughput — larger than the global credit card network by a factor of ten — creates a machine learning training set that legacy security vendors cannot replicate with on-premise architectures. The company's lightweight agent consumes less than 1 percent of host CPU resources, eliminating the performance degradation that made legacy antivirus software universally resented by enterprise IT administrators. Legacy vendors like Symantec routinely consumed 20 percent of CPU during signature updates. The performance advantage wasn't marketing — it was measurable and it mattered for adoption. CEO George Kurtz runs a company with 8,500 employees, $3.06 billion in FY2024 ARR, and a net dollar retention rate of 115 percent. Forty-nine percent of customers use six or more Falcon platform modules. The land-and-expand dynamic — sell one module, earn trust, sell the next — is the financial engine that makes CrowdStrike's growth durable even after the July 2024 crisis.

Wells Fargo & Company: The Federal Reserve has never imposed a balance sheet cap on a major American bank as a punitive measure — until Wells Fargo. The 2018 asset cap, restricting total assets to the level at which they stood at year-end 2017 (approximately $1.95 trillion), was an unprecedented sanction that has cost the bank an estimated $3 billion-plus annually in foregone revenue. No other major U.S. Bank has faced this constraint in over a century of Federal Reserve history. The cap emerged from the fake-accounts scandal that became public in 2016: 3.5 million unauthorized accounts opened over 14 years, driven by internal cross-selling sales quotas that employees faced daily. Internal auditors had identified the practice as early as 2004 — twelve years before the public revelation. The board received cross-selling metrics quarterly throughout that period, the same metrics producing the fraud also producing positive headline numbers. Wells Fargo holds approximately $1.9 trillion in assets and serves over 69 million customers — roughly one in three American households — through retail banking, commercial banking, wealth management, and investment banking. The $83.7 billion in 2025 revenue and $21.3 billion in net income demonstrate that the underlying business remains among the most valuable banking franchises in the country, constrained rather than destroyed. The cap's removal — expected somewhere in the 2025-2027 window — would unlock an estimated $2-4 billion in additional annual net income at full run-rate, representing 10-20 percent earnings growth from a single regulatory event. That potential explains why Wells Fargo stock has traded at a persistent discount to peers and why cap removal represents the single largest near-term earnings catalyst in U.S. Banking.

CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc. and Wells Fargo & Company pursue distinct approaches to generating revenue, and understanding how each company operates is the foundation of any fair comparison between CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc. and Wells Fargo & Company.

CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc. business model: By replacing the bloated, resource-heavy agents of legacy vendors like Symantec and McAfee — which routinely consumed 20% of a host machine's CPU cycles during daily signature updates — with a lightweight agent consuming less than 1% of CPU resources, CrowdStrike eliminated the primary friction point that caused enterprise IT administrators to disable security software. Honestly, CrowdStrike generates 84% of its total revenue from high-margin cloud subscriptions, 12% from professional services, and 4% from hardware sales, operating a software-as-a-service (SaaS) model that prioritizes recurring annual contract value (ACV) over one-time perpetual licenses. The subscription revenue stream is anchored by the Falcon platform, which is tiered into four primary packages: Falcon Go (basic next-generation antivirus), Falcon Pro (EDR and IT hygiene), Falcon Enterprise (cloud workload protection and threat intelligence), and Falcon Complete (fully managed detection and response). The core economic driver of the subscription model is the module attachment rate; CrowdStrike does not force customers to purchase a monolithic suite, but rather allows them to deploy the base endpoint protection module and subsequently activate additional modules — such as Identity Protection, Cloud Security, LogScale, and Firewall Management — via a simple toggle switch in the Falcon console without requiring a new agent installation. In contrast, the hardware stream — consisting of pre-configured sensor appliances for air-gapped or highly regulated environments — carries a negative gross margin of approximately -15%, as the company sells the hardware at cost or a slight loss specifically to drive the attachment of the high-margin software subscription. Professional services, which account for 12% of revenue, operate at a 45% gross margin and include incident response retainers, breach remediation, and proactive threat hunting engagements; while lower margin than subscriptions, these services function as a critical loss leader and credibility builder, often serving as the initial entry point for enterprise customers before they transition to the full Falcon platform subscription. The hardware segment, while financially dilutive to gross margins, is strategically vital for penetrating the federal government and critical infrastructure sectors where air-gapped networks mandate on-premise data processing, serving as a wedge to eventually migrate these highly sticky customers to the cloud-native subscription model as their IT architectures modernize. The pricing architecture is designed to capture value as the customer's digital footprint expands; as a customer adds new cloud workloads or remote employees, the per-endpoint licensing fee automatically scales, ensuring that CrowdStrike's revenue grows in direct proportion to the customer's attack surface expansion. The competitive pattern between CrowdStrike and Microsoft is defined by an asymmetric war of attrition; Microsoft uses Defender as a loss leader to secure the broader Microsoft 365 network, pricing it at a marginal cost of zero, while CrowdStrike must justify its $8 to $15 per-endpoint annual fee through superior cross-platform coverage, advanced threat intelligence, and a higher fidelity of detection that reduces false positives. SentinelOne's pricing is typically 20% lower than CrowdStrike's, and its purple AI generative tool provides a compelling narrative for budget-conscious CIOs, forcing CrowdStrike to defend the low end of the market with its Falcon Go tier, which sacrifices margin to maintain volume. This bundling threat is compounded by the fact that Microsoft offers Defender XDR as part of the Microsoft 365 E5 license, a suite already purchased by 60% of the Fortune 500, meaning the incremental cost for an enterprise to activate Microsoft's endpoint protection is effectively zero, forcing CrowdStrike to justify its $8 to $15 per-endpoint annual fee through superior threat intelligence and cross-platform coverage that Microsoft cannot match. CrowdStrike was conceived in the boardroom of McAfee in 2010, when George Kurtz, then the Chief Technology Officer, realized that the entire cybersecurity industry was fighting a losing battle against advanced persistent threats (APTs) by relying on signature-based antivirus software. McAfee's leadership, entrenched in the lucrative perpetual license and hardware appliance business model, rejected the proposal, viewing the cloud as a security risk and a threat to their high-margin hardware revenue. Kurtz resigned from McAfee in early 2011, taking with him a clear vision of what the future of cybersecurity must look like.

Wells Fargo & Company business model: Additional settlements followed: the CFPB's $3.7 billion settlement in December 2022, covering auto loan insurance abuses and mortgage fee overcharges, was the largest in CFPB history at the time. **Net Interest Income (NII)** is the difference between the interest Wells Fargo earns on its assets (loans, securities, and other interest-earning assets) and the interest it pays on its liabilities (deposits, borrowings, and other interest-bearing liabilities). **Noninterest Income** contributes approximately 40 – 45% of net revenue and encompasses a diverse set of fee-based revenue streams. The most important are: (1) Wealth and Investment Management fees — fee income from Wells Fargo Advisors, Private Bank, and Abbot Downing, tied to approximately $2.2 trillion in client assets and generating stable revenue across market cycles; (2) Mortgage banking income — origination fees, gain-on-sale income, and servicing fees from the residential mortgage portfolio, which was historically Wells Fargo's largest single business before regulatory constraints and rate environment pressures reduced its prominence; (3) Card and transaction fees — interchange, annual, and transaction fees from consumer and commercial card products serving tens of millions of accounts; (4) Investment banking and trading — advisory fees, underwriting commissions, and trading revenue from the Corporate and Investment Banking segment, which is constrained by the asset cap's impact on balance sheet-intensive businesses like leveraged lending; and (5) Service charges and other fees — account service fees, wire transfer fees, and miscellaneous consumer banking charges. As interest rates stabilized and deposit repricing caught up with asset yields in 2024, NII moderated toward $47 billion, causing total net revenue to dip slightly year-over-year despite growth in fee income. Wells Fargo's conduct failures were not confined to the retail fake-accounts scandal: the CFPB's 2022 $3.7 billion settlement, the largest in the agency's history, covered auto loan insurance charges (forced-place insurance on borrowers who already had coverage), mortgage fee overcharges, and deposit account freezes that harmed millions of customers. The middle-market commercial banking business also tends to generate superior returns on equity relative to consumer banking, because the average middle-market loan balance is large, the customer is financially sophisticated enough to represent lower operational support costs, and the treasury management fee streams are recurring and inflation-adjusting. Without cap removal — if the Federal Reserve determines that governance remediation is incomplete and delays lifting the order — Wells Fargo's financial trajectory is more modest: steady but unspectacular earnings improvement driven by expense reduction, wealth management fee growth, and credit card portfolio expansion within existing constraints.

The durability of a company's moat often decides long-term winners. Here is how the competitive advantages of CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc. stack up against those of Wells Fargo & Company.

CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc. competitive advantage: The overall business model is a masterclass in modern SaaS economics: acquire the customer through a high-efficacy endpoint product, expand revenue through frictionless module toggles, retain the customer through high switching costs and data network effects, and defend the margin through channel-led distribution and cloud infrastructure scalability. CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc. Processes exactly 2 trillion security events every single week, a data throughput volume that exceeds the transaction processing capacity of the global credit card network by a factor of ten, establishing an insurmountable data moat in the cybersecurity sector. The customer acquisition cost (CAC) for CrowdStrike is heavily subsidized by its channel partner ecosystem, which comprises over 10,000 global resellers, managed security service providers (MSSPs), and system integrators. The subscription model also benefits from high switching costs; once the Falcon agent is deployed across 50,000 endpoints and integrated with the customer's identity provider and cloud infrastructure, ripping out the platform requires a multi-month remediation project, creating a structural lock-in that results in a gross retention rate exceeding 98%. The economic moat is widened by the data network effect: every new customer that deploys the Falcon agent contributes telemetry to the Threat Graph, improving the machine learning models' accuracy for all existing customers, which in turn increases the product's efficacy and justifies price increases of 5-7% annually during contract renewals. The company's competitive moat is anchored by the Threat Graph's massive data scale, the single-agent architecture's performance efficiency, and the Counter Adversary Operations team's proprietary threat intelligence. The competitive moat is also defended through the channel partner ecosystem; CrowdStrike's 10,000 partners are incentivized by higher margin structures and a simpler sales process, leading them to recommend the Falcon platform over more complex, multi-component alternatives from Palo Alto and Microsoft. The second pillar of the competitive advantage is the single lightweight agent architecture, which consolidates 18 distinct security functions — ranging from endpoint detection and response to vulnerability management, IT hygiene, and identity protection — into a single 20-megabyte sensor that consumes less than 1% of the host machine's CPU and memory resources. The competitive moat is not merely technological but operational; CrowdStrike's ability to process 2 trillion events weekly requires a cloud infrastructure architecture that is optimized for massive parallel processing and low-latency data retrieval, a technical hurdle that requires billions of dollars in cumulative R&D investment and a decade of iterative optimization, effectively barring new entrants from replicating the Threat Graph's scale and efficacy. The acquisition of Humio, rebranded as LogScale, is the cornerstone of this strategy; LogScale is a next-generation SIEM (Security Information and Event Management) platform capable of ingesting petabytes of log data at a fraction of the cost of legacy SIEMs like Splunk, allowing CrowdStrike to displace incumbent log management vendors and consolidate security telemetry into a single data lake. These early adopters provided the critical telemetry data that allowed the Threat Graph to begin learning and improving, establishing the data network effect that would become the company's primary competitive advantage.

Wells Fargo & Company competitive advantage: Wells Fargo's CIB has been unable to fully compete with JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, and Morgan Stanley in balance-sheet-intensive advisory and capital markets mandates — a competitive disadvantage that reverses automatically once the asset cap is lifted. Whether that restoration succeeds — whether Wells Fargo can rebuild trust with the 69 million customers it retained through the scandal, recruit the younger customers it has been losing, and eventually deploy its franchise advantages at full capacity once the Federal Reserve asset cap lifts — is the question that will determine whether Wells Fargo's second century looks more like its first or like a long managed decline. But it cannot fully use any of these advantages while the Federal Reserve asset cap limits balance sheet deployment. Wells Fargo's challenges divide into three categories: regulatory constraints that are slowly resolving, competitive disadvantages that compound with each passing year, and cultural transformation that requires sustained organizational discipline that management-by-management-turnover typically erodes. Bank of America's Erica virtual assistant has accumulated 50+ million users and processes billions of queries, representing genuine artificial intelligence capability deployed at consumer banking scale. Wells Fargo's most durable competitive advantages are its physical distribution network, its middle-market commercial banking relationships, and the latent earnings power that will be unlocked by Federal Reserve asset cap removal.

Future prospects matter as much as current results. The growth strategies below explain how CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc. and Wells Fargo & Company each plan to expand from here.

CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc. growth strategy: The land-and-expand strategy is quantified by the net dollar retention rate of 115%, meaning that for every $100 of annual recurring revenue (ARR) acquired in a given year, that same cohort generates $115 in the following year purely through upsells and cross-sells, independent of new customer acquisition. The growth strategy also includes the development of industry-specific Falcon modules for healthcare, financial services, and critical infrastructure, which incorporate pre-built compliance templates and threat intelligence feeds tailored to the specific regulatory and adversary landscape of each vertical. This module attachment rate drives a net dollar retention rate of 115%, meaning that even without acquiring a single new customer, the existing customer base expands its annual contract value by 15% annually through the addition of new cloud security workloads. This expansion is driven by the '5-4-3-2-1' growth framework: securing 5 clouds (AWS, Azure, GCP, Oracle, IBM), 4 identity providers (Active Directory, Okta, Ping, Azure AD), 3 log management instances, 2 automation workflows, and 1 Charlotte AI deployment. The '2' refers to implementing two automation workflows using the Falcon Fusion module, which allows security analysts to build no-code automated response playbooks that isolate infected endpoints and reset compromised passwords without human intervention. The company's operating use is further demonstrated by the divergence between revenue growth (36%) and operating expense growth (22%), allowing non-GAAP operating margins to expand to 24% in FY2024. The revenue concentration is well-diversified, with no single customer accounting for more than 3% of total revenue, and the geographic mix is expanding, with international revenue growing at 42% year-over-year to reach $1.13 billion, reducing the company's reliance on the mature North American market. The channel partner strategy is also evolving to support this framework; CrowdStrike is training its 10,000 partners to sell the 5-4-3-2-1 bundle as a comprehensive 'Security Operations Transformation' package, offering partners a 20% margin uplift for deals that include three or more modules. The financial target of this growth strategy is to increase the average selling price (ASP) per customer from $45,000 to $75,000 by fiscal year 2027, a 66% increase that will be driven entirely by the 5-4-3-2-1 module attachment rate, without requiring a proportional increase in the sales headcount. The company's long-term financial model targets $10 billion in annual recurring revenue by fiscal year 2030, a goal that requires maintaining a 25% compound annual growth rate (CAGR) while expanding non-GAAP operating margins to 35% through the operating use of the cloud-native architecture. The team operated in stealth mode for 18 months, focusing entirely on building the Falcon platform's core architecture: a lightweight agent that could hook into the Windows kernel without causing system crashes, and a cloud backend capable of ingesting and analyzing millions of events per second. He partnered with Gregg Marston, a seasoned enterprise software executive who had previously built and sold two security companies, and Dmitri Alperovitch, a brilliant Russian-born threat intelligence researcher who had deep connections in the global intelligence community. The economic engine of the company relies on a land-and-expand strategy that has resulted in 49% of its customer base deploying six or more distinct security modules, ranging from endpoint detection and response (EDR) to identity threat protection and cloud security posture management (CSPM). The business model relies on a land-and-expand strategy, achieving a 115% net dollar retention rate with 49% of customers using six or more modules. CrowdStrike's growth strategy is explicitly defined by the '5-4-3-2-1' framework, a systematic initiative to capture specific market segments by deploying targeted modules that expand the customer's annual contract value without requiring a new sales cycle. This growth strategy is executed through a land-and-expand motion that relies on the existing customer base; rather than acquiring new customers, the sales team focuses on upselling the 6,500 existing subscription customers to adopt the 5-4-3-2-1 modules, a strategy that is significantly more capital efficient than new customer acquisition. The international growth strategy involves establishing regional headquarters in London, Frankfurt, and Singapore, and hiring 500 local sales and support personnel to penetrate the European and Asia-Pacific markets, where the adoption of cloud-native security is accelerating due to the rapid digitization of legacy industries. CrowdStrike's strategic bet for the next three years is the transformation of the Falcon platform from an endpoint security tool into the central nervous system for enterprise security operations, a transition anchored by the '5-4-3-2-1' growth framework and the integration of generative AI via Charlotte AI. The international expansion strategy is a critical component of the future outlook, with the company targeting 40% of total revenue from international markets by fiscal year 2027, driven by the adoption of cloud-native security in Europe and Asia-Pacific, where data sovereignty regulations require localized cloud infrastructure that CrowdStrike is actively building through regional AWS availability zones.

Wells Fargo & Company growth strategy: The problem was not finding gold — thousands of miners were finding it — but converting raw gold dust into usable currency, moving that currency safely to where it could be spent or invested, and communicating between California and the East within weeks rather than months. The corporate and investment banking operation, though constrained by regulatory limitations, is a meaningful force in U.S. Capital markets. The Federal Reserve's rate hiking cycle of 2022 – 2023 expanded Wells Fargo's net interest margin (the percentage spread between earning asset yields and funding costs) significantly, as the bank's variable-rate assets repriced upward faster than its deposit costs increased. **Corporate and Investment Banking** (CIB) handles large-cap corporate clients, capital markets transactions, M&A advisory, institutional sales and trading, and structured finance. This is the segment most visibly constrained by the Federal Reserve asset cap: investment banks compete partly on the size of their balance sheets, which affects their ability to underwrite large leveraged loans, hold inventory for market-making, or provide bridge financing in M&A transactions. The corruption of that model — the transformation of a customer-service philosophy into a sales quota machine — was a failure of governance, not a failure of the underlying strategy. JPMorgan's consumer bank has consistently outgrown Wells Fargo in new deposit account openings since 2016, partly by deploying branch expansion and marketing into markets where the Wells Fargo brand had been damaged by the scandal. JPMorgan's investment bank has captured advisory and lending mandates that Wells Fargo's balance sheet-constrained CIB could not match. Bank of America offers a different competitive comparison — a bank that also had significant post-crisis regulatory challenges but executed its remediation more successfully and earlier, now competing on the strength of its Merrill Lynch wealth management franchise, the Erica AI assistant (50+ million users), and a technology investment that has been more consistent than Wells Fargo's. With cap removal, Wells Fargo can grow its loan portfolio proportionally to its deposit base, deploy balance sheet in investment banking mandates it currently cannot take, and accelerate the return of capital through buybacks at a rate that currently constrained growth investment doesn't allow. Scharf's stated target is a sub-60% efficiency ratio, achievable through ongoing expense reduction and (more importantly) revenue growth once the asset cap is removed. Wells Fargo's technology investment was constrained during the 2016 – 2022 period when management attention and capital were consumed by regulatory remediation. The resulting gap in digital product quality — mobile banking features, small business banking tools, automated investing capabilities, and AI-powered customer service — is visible in J.D. Power customer satisfaction rankings and in new account opening data. Closing the technology gap requires sustained investment without the distraction of new regulatory actions — a virtuous cycle that depends on successfully completing the consent order remediation. The physical branch network — 4,500+ branches concentrated in high-growth Sun Belt (California, Texas, Florida, Arizona, Nevada, Colorado), Pacific Coast, and Mountain West markets — represents decades of site selection, real estate acquisition, and relationship-building that digital-only competitors cannot replicate cost-effectively or quickly. The branch network provides Wells Fargo with a customer acquisition and retention infrastructure that pure digital banks are spending billions trying to partially replicate through embedded finance partnerships and retail co-locations. Additionally, the geographic concentration in Sun Belt markets is a structural tailwind: these are among the fastest-growing population and economic regions in the United States, meaning the existing branch infrastructure serves an expanding addressable market without requiring proportional new investment. Wells Fargo's growth strategy under CEO Scharf is organized around a sequenced set of priorities that reflect the reality of operating under regulatory constraints. The third priority — revenue growth — is partly deferred by the asset cap but partly achievable within current constraints through improving product capabilities and increasing cross-sell in appropriate, customer-needs-driven ways. The Wealth and Investment Management segment can grow by recruiting financial advisors, expanding the Private Bank client base, and deepening investment product relationships with existing commercial banking clients. The credit card business can grow without significant balance sheet expansion by improving digital acquisition and increasing usage among the existing deposit customer base. International banking and capital markets advisory can grow within existing balance sheet limits by being more selective about which relationships to serve. The bank's loan-to-deposit ratio is substantially below peers because the asset cap has prevented loan growth proportional to deposit growth. The investment banking franchise can compete for balance-sheet-intensive mandates it currently declines. Beyond the cap, the medium-term outlook depends on interest rates (which drive NII), credit quality (which was exceptional in 2021 – 2024 but may normalize if the economy slows), and the pace of technology investment's impact on customer satisfaction and retention. Henry Wells and William Fargo did not intend to build a bank. But American Express's board declined to expand to California. Wells Fargo acquired those routes in 1866 after the transcontinental telegraph made the Pony Express obsolete, consolidating its dominance of western express service.

A closer look at the financial trajectory of CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc. and Wells Fargo & Company rounds out the comparison.

CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc.: CrowdStrike's ARR grew from $2.24 billion in FY2023 to $3.06 billion in FY2024, a 37% increase that continued despite the July 2024 outage occurring within that fiscal year. The FY2025 ARR reached approximately $3.9 billion — evidence that the post-outage retention held and that new customer acquisition resumed faster than most analysts expected after the crisis. Net income of $198 million in FY2024 represents the first full year of GAAP profitability in company history. That number is modest against a $65 billion market cap but the relevant framing is the ARR trajectory and the platform expansion dynamic. A 115% net dollar retention rate means existing customer cohorts grow 15% annually without any new customer acquisition — a compounding base that makes future revenue more predictable than the headline growth rate suggests. The 49% of customers using six or more modules is the platform consolidation signal. CrowdStrike entered most enterprise accounts selling endpoint detection. Customers who added identity security, threat intelligence, cloud workload protection, and log management through the same console are buying from a single vendor rather than managing six separate security relationships. Each additional module makes replacement more expensive. The July 2024 outage created liability that hasn't fully been quantified. Delta Air Lines sued CrowdStrike for damages. Other litigation is pending. The financial resolution of those claims will reduce future earnings. The $65 billion market cap appears to price the litigation as manageable — a view that depends on courts assigning limited liability to software vendors whose updates cause downstream damage through customer implementation choices.

Wells Fargo & Company: Wells Fargo reported $83.7 billion in 2025 total revenue and $21.3 billion in net income, up from $83.7B and $21.3 billion in 2024. The 2025 result matters because the Federal Reserve lifted the asset cap in June 2025, removing a major growth constraint that had shaped the bank's strategy since 2018. The core financial question is whether Wells Fargo can convert its cleaner risk-and-control profile into sustainable balance-sheet growth without giving back expense discipline. Net interest income stayed stable, noninterest income improved, and the bank's return profile strengthened, but future upside depends on deposit growth, loan demand, fee income, credit quality, and execution under Charles Scharf.